Comments on: Eclipse and installers… http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/ Sun, 29 Jan 2012 10:57:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2 By: Patrick http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12678 Patrick Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:12:44 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12678 One of the reasons why I prefer to all other IDEs is the absense of installers on eclipse.org. I think every tool that doesn't need an installer should not have one. Btw installers are a good place to loose friends - I hate the Netbeans installer for putting icons and menus in places without asking me (yes I know that NB has a zip as well). That is so unprofessional and shows such disrespect for me as user that I have always wondered what else was made with that attitude (and at that place in time I haven't used it for a single moment and already don't like it). One of the reasons why I prefer to all other IDEs is the absense of installers on eclipse.org. I think every tool that doesn’t need an installer should not have one.

Btw installers are a good place to loose friends – I hate the Netbeans installer for putting icons and menus in places without asking me (yes I know that NB has a zip as well). That is so unprofessional and shows such disrespect for me as user that I have always wondered what else was made with that attitude (and at that place in time I haven’t used it for a single moment and already don’t like it).

]]> By: John Conlon http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12677 John Conlon Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:03:07 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12677 I have asked this question myself on the eclipse.technology.equinox newsgroup and rechecking it today I see Pascal responded. Here is the thread. Pascal Rapicault wrote: >>> Is there a P2 Installer enabled for JavaWebStart or any work being >>> done in > that direction? > The p2 installer is a simple RCP app (no workbench), as such like any > other RCP app it can be deployed using p2. > What are you really after: installing the installer and then > installing the product? or Do you want to deploy your complete app with > JWS and also have p2 manage it? I want to deploy a simple Java Web Start P2 installer for my RCP app. Scenario: 1. Customer wants to install my RCP, finds the installation page of my website. 2. Installation page magic checks customers JRE versions and displays warnings with links to download/upgrade JRE OR a JNLP link. 3. Customer clicks the JNLP link (not knowing what JNLP is because he dosen't have to) and the p2 installer is downloaded, executed, and displayed. 4. P2 installer prompts for directory to install . Customer answers prompt. P2 installer installs the app. 5. App is a fully p2ized and able to deal with p2 updates without JWS. Benefits- no zips, no extractions, no extraction tools, validates Java, no teaching customers how to install or making sure they have unzipping tools. I have asked this question myself on the eclipse.technology.equinox newsgroup and rechecking it today I see Pascal responded. Here is the thread.

Pascal Rapicault wrote:
>>> Is there a P2 Installer enabled for JavaWebStart or any work being
>>> done in
> that direction?
> The p2 installer is a simple RCP app (no workbench), as such like any
> other RCP app it can be deployed using p2.
> What are you really after: installing the installer and then
> installing the product? or Do you want to deploy your complete app with
> JWS and also have p2 manage it?
I want to deploy a simple Java Web Start P2 installer for my RCP app.
Scenario:
1. Customer wants to install my RCP, finds the installation page of my website.
2. Installation page magic checks customers JRE versions and displays warnings with links to download/upgrade JRE OR
a JNLP link.
3. Customer clicks the JNLP link (not knowing what JNLP is because he dosen’t have to) and the p2 installer is downloaded, executed, and displayed.
4. P2 installer prompts for directory to install . Customer answers prompt. P2 installer installs the app.
5. App is a fully p2ized and able to deal with p2 updates without JWS.

Benefits- no zips, no extractions, no extraction tools, validates Java, no teaching customers how to install or making sure they have unzipping tools.

]]> By: Mike http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12671 Mike Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:22:01 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12671 Sorry for my typos. Corrections: - craftsman - specialized - one-size-fits-it-all - That's Sorry for my typos. Corrections:
- craftsman
- specialized
- one-size-fits-it-all
- That’s

]]> By: Mike http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12670 Mike Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:19:59 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12670 Well, there are two kinds of developers. The professional ones who need multiple installations of IDEs and who hate installers (because you can only have one installation of the program) and the ones who don't care because they treat an IDE not as a tool but as something like Visio or Word. Install once and use that. Like a real craftsmen uses specialed tools for his jobs (multiple Eclipse installations). They don't use a generic no-size-fits-it-all setup of the development environment. That silly, i think. (Besides, P2 still needs a lot of improvement) Well, there are two kinds of developers. The professional ones who need multiple installations of IDEs and who hate installers (because you can only have one installation of the program) and the ones who don’t care because they treat an IDE not as a tool but as something like Visio or Word. Install once and use that.

Like a real craftsmen uses specialed tools for his jobs (multiple Eclipse installations). They don’t use a generic no-size-fits-it-all setup of the development environment. That silly, i think.

(Besides, P2 still needs a lot of improvement)

]]> By: Maarten Meijer http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12668 Maarten Meijer Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:46:29 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12668 I agree that a decent installer, whereby I mean something a non-Eclipsian understands through platform familiarity, would be a big help for the acceptance of Eclipse as RCP platform. - platform conforming (or p2 aware standalone lightweight) installer - platform conforming placement of workspaces and documents I agree that a decent installer, whereby I mean something a non-Eclipsian understands through platform familiarity, would be a big help for the acceptance of Eclipse as RCP platform.
- platform conforming (or p2 aware standalone lightweight) installer
- platform conforming placement of workspaces and documents

]]> By: Bananeweizen http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12662 Bananeweizen Sat, 21 Mar 2009 06:57:23 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12662 Sorry to say this, but energetic is so absolutely right. In my company there were many "How can this be good software if it does not even have an installer?" comments, when people tried Eclipse for themselves. We (as Eclipse experts) all know, _which_ of the many downloads to use and how to install Eclipse, but for a typical Windows user the current scenario really makes a bad user experience. And that leaves to thoughts like "If the Eclipse developers ignore this simple request to have a decent installer, they will probably ignore any other real issue we might have by using Eclipse." Sorry to say this, but energetic is so absolutely right. In my company there were many “How can this be good software if it does not even have an installer?” comments, when people tried Eclipse for themselves. We (as Eclipse experts) all know, _which_ of the many downloads to use and how to install Eclipse, but for a typical Windows user the current scenario really makes a bad user experience. And that leaves to thoughts like “If the Eclipse developers ignore this simple request to have a decent installer, they will probably ignore any other real issue we might have by using Eclipse.”

]]> By: Anton http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12652 Anton Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:40:18 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12652 funny one :) funny one :)

]]> By: Eric Rizzo http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12647 Eric Rizzo Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:14:44 +0000 http://blog.hantsuki.org/2009/03/20/eclipse-and-installers/#comment-12647 That might help if the p2 installer were actually easier to use or more functional than the EPP packages available on the main downloads page. But it's neither of those, so what's the point? Sorry to be such a "hater" but I'm hardly alone in my distaste for p2; there is a reason there are hundreds of bug filed against it in the past year and probably hundreds of blog and newsgroup posts expressing confusion and or frustration with it. That might help if the p2 installer were actually easier to use or more functional than the EPP packages available on the main downloads page. But it’s neither of those, so what’s the point?
Sorry to be such a “hater” but I’m hardly alone in my distaste for p2; there is a reason there are hundreds of bug filed against it in the past year and probably hundreds of blog and newsgroup posts expressing confusion and or frustration with it.

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